M47
My letter......
April 28 2015
Comments
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RHP User
11 years ago
If you are selective in who you choose to feel compassion for then you separate yourself from their humanity and it makes it easy to agree to their death..for those who may be interested the mantra of compassion is .......OM MANI PADME HUNG..The Liberation Prison Project is a Tibetan Buddhist project mainly in the USA,supporting prisoners on death row xxFreya
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RHP User
11 years ago
I'm not actually sure what your point is? It's definitely not easy to change the law in another country, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't be speaking out against it. Sustained international pressure has actually been effective in changing archaic and unjust laws on numerous occasions. The death penalty was abolished in Cambodia after it's removal was linked to foreign aid. On a larger scale, remember apartheid in South Africa? International embarrassment at some point may well put an end to our own concentration camps. I can tell you it's pretty embarrassing on a personal level to be an Australian abroad in SE Asia right now. People have noticed, and it's only a matter of time before the repetitional damage gets expensive in way or another. Indonesia are learning that right now. It's not just Australia - the French and Brazilians are not happy either. It will take time, but if they keep doing it the pressure will build. On a personal level I don't care what the law is or where it is. I'm quite happy to tell anyone that thinks otherwise that nobody deserves that treatment, no matter how dumb, greedy, or nasty they are, or where they've been caught.
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RHP User
11 years ago
Well, we're just going to have to disagree I guess. This subject does tend to polarise people. Although I disagree with some of what you have to say, you're strong in your beliefs and present reasoned arguments without resorting to some of the stuff seen earlier on this thread. We're certainly on different sides of the fence, but hey - at least neither of us are sitting on it! - Posted from rhpmobile
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RHP User
11 years ago
Say it as you see it lovely.....YOU Rock!!
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RHP User
11 years ago
On this topic. I am a really positive person, despite being smacked in the face by a number of things in the past couple of years. I really believe most people are good people, willing to do the right thing and to help others out in time of need. This applies to people in any country. But....... Monsters are real. They may not hide under our beds or in our wardrobes, but just sometimes they walk amongst us. And I'm not now just talking about heroin traffickers. And to protect ourselves and our progeny, I believe that permanent removal from society is the only way to protect ourselves from these people. Because, and bet your bottom dollar those 'people' don't care about you. I shouldn't, but will, share one final story. In 2004, when these cretins were in full swing with their importation business, there was a couple in Footscray in Melbourne (yes I lived and worked there then) who were seen smacked out on a park bench near a playground. They had a pram with a one year old child in it. A passerby woke the father up after some time, and said 'I think you're child's dead.' Which the poor girl was, because she'd been strapped in the pram for four days without being fed, changed or given a drink because the parents left her inside the front door of their flat as there was more heroin to be had and she was a pain in the arse if she was let out. The mother got 18 months, the father 12. Both are now dead through drug abuse. That child could have cured cancer or flown to Mars, but we'll never know because of these clowns that imported these drugs into this country which allowed this to happen. I fully respect other people's views on this subject, but in the Indo case - you rolled the dice one too many times. You lost. Suck it up and take the lead injection. No tears from me. I regard myself as a compassionate person, but only from those that deserve compassion. Not these two. - Posted from rhpmobile
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RHP User
11 years ago
Quoting 'Twisted_Mister'That child could have cured cancer or flown to Mars, but we'll never know because of these clowns that imported these drugs into this country which allowed this to happen. or could have been a serial killer; or kickstarted a Rwanda-style ethnic cleansing; or burned and trampled little puppy dogs with floppy ears; or voted Liberal. But we'll never know because the parents of that child neglected her to the point of death - people could do that getting shitfaced on perfectly legal booze. Conversely if the drugs were easy to score legally the parents wouldn't have felt the need to leave their kid at home to get a hit, they could've ordered it from a local home-delivery service and had it dropped off by a kid on a moped (along with some chinese food and a bottle of pepsi). If you're going to look at further removed actors than the people directly involved in the situation, where do you stop? anyone they encountered leading up to that situation potentially contributed. Taxpayers funded the roads they used to get the drugs, or car manufacturers made their vehicles to get them there, blame the government for not allowing booze and nicotine be combined into an uber addictive concoction eclipsing heroin? I think it makes more sense to just blame the parents since they were the ones who actually neglected the kid resulting in death.
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RHP User
11 years ago
Quoting 'S_OnTheLoose' Quoting 'Twisted_Mister'That child could have cured cancer or flown to Mars, but we'll never know because of these clowns that imported these drugs into this country which allowed this to happen. or could have been a serial killer; or kickstarted a Rwanda-style ethnic cleansing; or burned and trampled little puppy dogs with floppy ears; or voted Liberal. But we'll never know because the parents of that child neglected her to the point of death - people could do that getting shitfaced on perfectly legal booze. Conversely if the drugs were easy to score legally the parents wouldn't have felt the need to leave their kid at home to get a hit, they could've ordered it from a local home-delivery service and had it dropped off by a kid on a moped (along with some chinese food and a bottle of pepsi). If you're going to look at further removed actors than the people directly involved in the situation, where do you stop? anyone they encountered leading up to that situation potentially contributed. Taxpayers funded the roads they used to get the drugs, or car manufacturers made their vehicles to get them there, blame the government for not allowing booze and nicotine be combined into an uber addictive concoction eclipsing heroin? I think it makes more sense to just blame the parents since they were the ones who actually neglected the kid resulting in death. How about taking some responsibilities for your own actions.Supply for Demand and if your substance abusing did anyone force your hand.
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RHP User
11 years ago
Just thank you. I was about to write the same, but more irritated and far less eloquent.
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RHP User
11 years ago
Here's the crux of it for all the pro death penalty crowd: 1. You believe the state has a right to kill people and you think it's an appropriate punishment.2. These suckers deserve it. Point 2 is the easy bit, most of the people put to death have done something to wrong society. For some reason though a lot of people have trouble stating point 1 out loud. There's a whole lot of justification around how deserving a victim is, but not a lot of discussion on the morals or merits of the actual punishment. For those of us against it's pretty simple. We don't worry about who deserves to die, because we believe the death penalty is wrong, full stop. There's a moral issue obviously, but there's also plenty of logic behind it - the fact is it's an ineffective deterrent, used disproportionately on the poor and vulnerable, and even in a country with a reasonably robust justice system like the US it is used in error far too often (one mistake is obviously too often). There's some credible thought that it actually makes a community more violent. Justifying the punishment for anything other than revenge is tough, so most just focus on how nasty the suckers are. For example - drug dealers kill babies. And of course it's another country and out of our hands. Saying no to the death penalty really is a much simpler and far more consistent position to take, rather than trying to come up with justifications for one killing or another. I highly recommended it. One last thought, courtesy of Ghandi: An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.
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RHP User
11 years ago
countries that have the death penalty..........the Vatican City only outlawed the death penalty in 1969 .....go figure
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RHP User
11 years ago
There is NO god?What if there is no afterlife...What if all that??What if .. what is written in OTHER pre biblical writing is true and we will NOT suffer if we kill?What if... as they allude to, that we were in fact CREATED specifically TO kill and Die?I mean.. "WHO" says we CANNOT kill?APART of course.. the OBVIOUS.. Governments...THINK ABOUT THAT STATEMENT.......In SOME countries, the Governments have not learned to outlaw killing yet.. and the ONLY way there is a change of Government rule.. or even LAWS.. is when SOMEONE decides THEY want a new law.. and kills the Old Government..Makes sense when you THINK about it...I get TOTALLY pissed with our esteemed mr abbott.. and goes.. fuck it..!! then goes out and kills him..IMAGINE how compliant the Government of the day WOULD be to the voice of the people, IF, the resultant action was DEATH.. and not a forced election.. Fck.. Mr Abbott would surely pull his fckn head in then eh...
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RHP User
11 years ago
Quoting 'Twisted_Mister' The reality is, nothing else will work so we're stuck with it. Empassioned pleas and creating hash tags will have no effect. Btw, if these two clowns had tried this on in Saudi Arabia they would have been publicly beheaded in a city square within the week. The world is not, generally, a nice place, while this country, generally, is. Wishing and hoping things will change in other places is not going to work..... Because, I'm taking it "Twisted Mister" That we should just all go through life, like sheep, with our eyes lowered and just ignore some of the awful atrocities that take place in this world, 'because we're just stuck with it?" Your own argument suggests that you perhaps consider the following ok, and just things the western world should just accept, because we'll never change them? Such as, being flogged, beaten, tortured or put to death for; Adultery; Driving a motor vehicle; Walking in public with a male who isn't your husband; Theft; Differing Political views, Religion; Colour; or Your race. I take it you also think it's ok for women to have acid thrown in their face because they won't 'kowtow' to a mans wishes in some parts of this world. That it's say ok to perform female circumcision, it's ok to allow girls as young as 10 to be 'married' off because that's just a 'cultural' thing in some parts of the world . That you also think it's ok for women to have their fingers, hands decapitated from their body, because they wish to wear nail polish, or even be so brazen enough as to show their bare flesh to the world. Perhaps it's ok to allow child sex exploitation to take place in some parts of the world, particularly third world countries, because that's just the way it is! I guess you also consider that domestic violence in our world is ok, because it's there, we can't do anything about it, so why bother doing anything to evoke change. That it's ok to say just go into schools and shoot innocent children, kidnap them from their families or whatever other atrocity it's ok to act out, because some sections of society have the perverse notion that education is an 'evil atrocity.' And for the record, I don't want to live in Indonesia (And I'm sure 'Simondoes' doesn't either, and a lot of other people on this forum) or in any other country where it's a world that is completely corrupt, dog eat dog, and completely devoid of any moral compass. I do like to think that a Karma bus exists in this world, and the next, and the next world after this. And, so I find myself going through life rather carefully, before smugly condemning others for their supposed errors and wrongs in this world. All of us sitting here, are a product of what I call, 'Western World Genes'. Whether by design or just pure good luck, that we were ALL just fortunate enough to be born, in a developed western society with progressive ideals. Although with some of the comments on this forum, I'm wondering just how progressive we are??? Until someone (or a nation) takes a stand, progresses change (in whatever form), whether it be through speech, mentoring or a government placing sanctions on another country, nothing will ever change. Every person on this planet is human, and deserves to be treated as such. Just because the world supposedly isn't a nice place, doesn't mean we shouldn't try to do something that makes it just that little bit better, or make someones world a nicer place.
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enange63
11 years ago
state sanctioned or otherwise, is abhorrent. Serves no purpose and is unjustifiable.
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RHP User
11 years ago
what do people think about the judiciary increasingly having its sentencing powers taken away by the legislature? I don't like how they can do an end-run around the somewhat independent judiciary, when the legislature is dependent on votes from an audience that isn't informed of any but the most simplified and sensationalist details of a case. I think it leads not only to bad and inconsistent laws, but inconsistent and unfair sentencing.
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RHP User
11 years ago
To suggest that I approve of acid being thrown in women's faces, or FGM or any of that is flat out offensive. You talk about making a stand. Well, that's not going to happen sitting in a comfortable country and posting on the Internet how horrible everyone else is because they're not 'progressive' enough. Wishing will not make it so. Let's get back to the topic. Two idiots, and not for the first time, arranged for massive amounts of hard drugs to be imported into this country through another country which has long advertised the death penalty for such activities. They lost the game. And were shot. According to the laws of that country. Offensive, Josie. Really offensive. If you'd read through the thread you would know I have compassion and empathy - just not for these two clowns. - Posted from rhpmobile
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RHP User
11 years ago
All your examples seem to be related to a particular religion, which I or nobody else on this thread mentioned. It's not about religion at all, it's about respecting the laws of another country - not projecting your 'progressive' views onto another country. Geez. - Posted from rhpmobile
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RHP User
11 years ago
They are dead..time to stop trying to prove you are right,let them rest in peace xxFreya
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RHP User
11 years ago
That is the most offensive thing I've heard in a while. A big thumbs down from me, I personally think what you wrote totally sucks.
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RHP User
11 years ago
Kevin Barlow and Brian Chambers?
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RHP User
11 years ago
I get what Josie is saying. TM has repeatedly said that it's ok to shoot them because they went there knowing the laws and broke them. We shouldn't try to help because they deserved it - having knowingly broken laws in another country that carry a barbaric punishment. There are a lot of harsh laws out there. Including some very backward laws directed at women. They are in another country though. If you choose to go there or live there and get caught up in them, well you deserve it and don't expect any help from us. That's the logical conclusion. Now I'm not suggesting for a moment that TM or anyone else here condones these laws and situations (you really shouldn't have done that Josie). But not doing anything about them is the logical conclusion of the "they knew about it and it's out of our jurisdiction" argument. It's complete bullshit. If there are unjust laws and barbaric punishments anywhere then we can and should be speaking out about them. It is often difficult for the people within an oppressive country to do it safely, so from the comfort of our own democracy we absolutely should be doing what we can. That's the whole point of Amnesty International. It's much harder to defend the lives of drug dealers compared to oppressed woman for sure, but to be consistent we really have to. If however you believe death is an appropriate punishment, then just say so, and stop trying to justify it by location. Be prepared to justify the choices on who lives and dies while you are at it. Or, if you believe we should not try to influence another State's laws, then understand that we are going to have to stay silent while a lot of really bad shit happens.
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RHP User
11 years ago
What I've said might sound offensive, but the reality is there are countries where you may as well take a step back in time to the middle ages. I'm not having a go at anyone or any religion. I'm simply stating the facts of life for some countries. They are punishments that have no place in the civilised world. (Personally, I don't think my opinion is any less offensive than yours. (and others on this forum.) You think it's ok for one flawed non perfect human being being to kill another flawed non perfect human because they say they can.) Frankly the death penalty is exactly the same, it's a step back in time. It's a penalty that has no place in a civilised society - Anywhere, no matter which country it's in. And, frankly Twisted Mister the Indonesian justice system is as corrupt as the day is long. If you have enough money and bribes sent to the right people, it will get you almost anything you desire. You only need to look at those involved in perpetrating the Bali bombings, many of those perpetrators are free and now sitting pretty. Hundreds of lives were destroyed by those events, individuals maimed and countless truly innocent people died for no good reason. Not withstanding that it obliterated the earning capacity for the locals for years afterwards. What I really object to about these two individuals in particular being killed is the hypocrisy of the entire Indonesian justice system in general. Taking drugs is a choice, no one holds you hostage and makes you take them upon the pain of death. The reality is the Western world needs to have a wider discussion on how we handle illicit substances. If you cast your mind back (And yes I have read the act, although it pains me to admit to such a nerdy existence.) to the 1929 Customs Act and read it drug addiction was virtually non existence in the western world. I'm not sure how the rest of the world worked, however the long and short of it is the Collector of Customs of Australia would tally up how much Opium and Cocaine and whatever other so called drugs were required over the course of a year write to his English counterpart and they would be ordered and dispensed to the pharmaceutical community. My reading of that Act basically indicated that yes people did become addicted to those drugs mainly after they were prescribed by a GP, however they continued being cared for by their GP and those people functioned in the community, held down jobs and raised a family. The main concern at the time was that the Opium not be allowed into the hands of the Chinese community because it was feared they would smoke it and be addicted to it. The whole issue came unstuck when America decided during the 1950s that we had to have a 'War on Drugs', just as they have liked to have a war on so many other things since which has been of little benefit to the world. Since then even the USA is slowly changing its tune. California virtually in a state of bankruptcy is slowly legalising Marijuana. Why? Because then it's controlled by government and can be taxed. We could be doing the same. The reality is that there are drugs such as ICE that are never, ever going to be safe to take on any level because of the way they react with the neurons in our brains. The government has limited money to spend, so the sad reality is society is going to have to decide what it will and won't fight for. The way we have sought to combat illicit drugs in the past has not worked and unfortunately something needs to change. Take the money out of the drug put it in hands of government where it can be regulated and taxed and things will change. We need to raise revenue so I can't think a better way of doing it. However back to the Death Penalty, the question at hand. It's barbaric and when I look at America's use of it, generally those on death row are poor, uneducated and negro. If you're white, and have enough money to pay the right lawyers generally you escape the death penalty. Or at least it buys you life in prison, or with lots of money and a really good team you get off on a technicality. What does that say about a society? Frankly, not a lot. Except that if your poor you don't count and can go to the dogs. That frankly is disgusting. Notwithstanding all that there have been countless, upon countless cases where those convicted have then been found to be innocent years later. So in these cases how would you feel if it was your child put to death, the authorities come to your door and go, "Oh, um, that conviction and death penalty, oh, ah sorry mate we made a bit of a mistake, he's innocent." You're seriously telling me you're going to slap them on the back, and go 'Ah, it's ok mate no problem, what's done is done. All cool buddy.' I don't think so, I know I wouldn't - I'd be baying for blood! And I do believe you can do things to progress change. Governments can progress change through the UN, through our diplomats all the way through to how we decide to do or not do business with an other country. I also believe individuals can evoke change. You only need to look at the work Malala Yousafzai is doing to evoke and champion women's education. On a personal level, I give to http://www.kiva.org/ they do Micro-loans in 3rd world and developing countries. I give my loans to women in countries where I consider they are at risk, vulnerable, and generally have far less control over their destiny than I do. I like to think I'm giving someone a fishing rod for life instead of just a fish. And, please don't take offence, but if the world went through its entire being imagining that nothing could change or be changed, Columbus would never have discovered the world was round, Darwin would never have opened his mouth on the theory of evolution, women would never have gained the right to vote, Slavery would never have been abolished. Someone, somewhere, 'wished' all those things - eventually they happened. Because people, countries or individuals wished, championed and evoked that change. Hmm and, Meander - from memory I'm a 'grey ghost' in your world. I don't exist.....and am not worthy of comment.
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RHP User
11 years ago
Your comment wasn't just about countries and corruption, it was a vile attack on Twisted Mister's character. I think you already know that though and you're backpedaling. Grey ghost or not, that's all I have to say in response to your nastiness.
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RHP User
11 years ago
Corrupt or not, you risk being shot bringing drugs through Indonesia, regardless of how much bribe money you have. Which in this case, was offered and rejected. The US states that have the death penalty execute plenty of white people as well, who are routinely on Death Row for far longer than 10 years. Where's the similar outrage to that related to the Bali drug traffickers? And my most important point - wishing did not bring about the things you mention. Darwin had to travel the world in very inhospitable circumstances over most of his life to gather evidence for his theory. The vote for women gained traction after significant public protests, and even then in individual countries. And sure there were trade and industry issues involved, but slavery (in the US anyway) was only abolished after the American Civil War and its horrific casualty list. None of these things would have happened as a result of people creating hash tags and posting on the Internet from the safety of their own homes. That change was created by making a stand and in some cases putting personal safety at risk. My view only - until we're prepared to do that to effect the change we desire, well........ - Posted from rhpmobile
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RHP User
11 years ago
The Bill abolishing slavery in the US was passed in 1861 just before the start of the war. - Posted from rhpmobile
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RHP User
11 years ago
Whats that Meander? Did someone mention me? LOL, I think I made one comment on this thread so not sure why I am still being mentioned.
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RHP User
11 years ago
Australia has concentration camps filled with adults and children which has been condemned by they UN and our Govt told them to stuff off. So how can we comment on other governments really.
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RHP User
11 years ago
I never back peddle and I meant exactly what I said in my last post (before the last post) And, well - that grey ghost, business..... I guess, I got the letter 'M' right. Clearly I'm going dotty in my old age, and I can't keep up with the world. (My apologies though.) However, ‘Simon Does’ actually expressed exactly what I wanted to say, far more eloquently than I did. This is my final comment on this subject. There are two premises here. You are for the Death Penalty (and all the other atrocities that take place in this world.) Or you are against it. Therefore:- 1. You think the Death Penalty is afair thing, (leave our Bali pair out of it.) as well as all the other totally unjust punishments that are perpetrated by human beings toward other human beings in this world. (Because generally human beings want to make someone be wrong, so they can be right.) If you happen to be in a country and get caught up in their legal system whether, justly, unjustly or simply because you are the unlucky person caught up in an international political game of ping pong, your attitude TM and the OP, is too bad so sad, it’s their country, their rules, so just suck it up princes and take a move on notice. OR 2. You believe each person born in this world has the chance and right to be treated with some degree of equality and dignity when it comes to basic human rights, no matter what their religion, race or degree of education.That includes the view that you think the Death Penalty, in all its forms worldwide is an abhorrent, despicable punishment, not fit for the 21 Century in a civilised society. And, no you don’t get to go, “Yes, but…..” It’s like coming home to your husband and saying, “Honey, I’m pregnant.” And he says, “How many months.” “Not, sure sweetie, I’m only half preggers.” You either are, or you aren’t. And Meeka, when it comes to our policy on refugees - I agree. So much simpler to go the way of Singapore (and it could well have changed since I was last there, which was almost 20 years ago for work.) (And this was told to be me by a local employee with I company I was employed by.) Essentially you could turn up in Singapore, but be prepared to learn the language, work continuously for 10 or 15 years, (can't remember the exact number of years.) and DO NOT leave the country in that time. And so, after working, paying tax, and having a clean criminal record during that time you were then granted Citizenship. A way simpler and far less expensive system than the one currently in operation. And, please don't get me started on those that languish in squalid refugee camps through out the world for up to a decade before actually being given asylum.
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RHP User
11 years ago
My view has changed in the last 2 months regarding the fate of the Bali 9. I'm currently traveling around all of qld and doing so until the end of the year. I tend to look for more remote places rather than major cities and am shocked as to how many people I've come across that are homeless, living in cars or pissy little tents. The majority of these people are 40+ years of of age and almost each one of them have blamed their situation on drug use..... I'm glad Australia dosnt have the death penaltie..... Tip
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Languid
11 years ago
I am against the death penalty it is institutionalised murder. I also believe that we shouldn't tell other countries how to run their own affairs no matter how much we may disagree with it. I wonder whether we are going to get the same public outrage over the Boston Bomber getting the death penalty that we had for the Bali 9? if not what is the difference?
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RHP User
11 years ago
So Freya are you wanting your children to suffer.Why is it people think of the Bali 9 families.Think about how many families that would suffer if they had gotthe drugs back to Australia.Think of the suffering as they watch there children get addictedand then as there children steal/bash or prostitution to get more drugs.Quoting 'Freya79' I don't care what the laws of a country are,murder is murder.,and I hope none of the self righteous biggots in this country are faced with the same situation the families of these two young men faced. Why not inform yourselves about the real reason they were executed... And for Gods sake don't go to a country with Sharia law and fuck someone's else's spouse,you will be flogged..
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RHP User
11 years ago
If the death penalty was on the table in this countrythen crime would be reduced.However in saying that there should be an added law to protectthe accused called benefit of a doubt.This would not apply to Burnies or Malat but would protect anyerrors made by justice system.It cost 70,00 a year to jail a person and that is more than the average mans wage.
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RHP User
11 years ago
Anyone who wants illicit drugs can access them. Busts have the same effect on the supply of drugs as a supermarket delivery truck crash has on the supply of your food - simply go to another store for a day or two until normal service is resumed. Even the police don't pretend they have anything other than a very short term effect on supply. And the death penalty does little if anything to deter crime. There's a lot of research, but take a short cut and read the recent ABC fact check if you want the quick version - http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-02-26/fact-check3a-does-the-death-penalty-deter3f/6116030 Executing Chan and Sukumaran was pointless murder on both counts I'm afraid. You are even wrong on the cost. Stats in the US show that the death penalty is extremely expensive. Most offenders sit on death row for a decade ore more, in special cells that are more expensive than standard, and they go through several appeals along the way. I wonder what all that stage show cost the Indonesians? They had already done 10yrs. Don't know for sure, but I'll bet an extra 10yrs in a cheap Bali prison wouldn't go near what they spent on the executions and the fanfare around them. It's done for political reasons, that's all. Unfortunately in some places it's a vote winner.
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RHP User
11 years ago
Boston Bomber? His sentencing hardly caused a blimp and my first reaction is that he is just a stupid kid and maybe deserves a chance to mature & realize the error of his ways. Otherwise he isn't an Aussie so nobody here will care.
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RHP User
11 years ago
Yes police admit they have a hard battle but throw inthe towel and the flood gates open.Yes it cost a lot of money in appeals but still cheaper than 50 years in prison and the risk he might escape.
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RHP User
11 years ago
You probably don't want to let facts get in the way of your opinion, but just in case: Cost of the death penalty in the US:http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/costs-death-penalty Quick summary: California could save $170M/yr by commuting death sentences to life in jail. In Washington each execution cost on average $24M. Kansas spends double the amount on death row prisoners as it does on others (and they are typically there for a decade or more). It is far more expensive when all costs are added up than keeping people in jail, even for life. I don't think escape is a serious threat, except in the movies. If we "open the floodgates" to drugs then anyone who wants them could get them. Just like they do now. Nobody is suggesting we do that, but decriminalisation and legalisation is now commonplace and does not lead to significant increases in use. Why? Because anyone who wants them can already get them. It is true that while they remain illegal we have to try and stop the serious criminals, but the fact is it makes virtually no difference to the availability. It does push up the price, but that doesn't mean people stop taking drugs. It just means they commit more crime to feed the addiction. There's not one junkie in Australia who went without a hit because Chan and Sukumaran were caught and executed. Their executions will probably deter western middle class idiots from being mules for a few years, but there is no shortage of more desperate people who have already taken their place.
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Languid
11 years ago
Quite right. People take the high moral ground when they are Aust and don't care otherwise. Double standards and hypocrisy
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RHP User
11 years ago
Exactly. Can't wait to hear the howls of outrage from some in this country when the next lot of prisoners in Indonesia (Portuguese, Dutch and Brazilian) are shot in late June. Apparently we're not such a global village after all. If you're not Australian, it doesn't matter - or so it would seem. - Posted from rhpmobile
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RHP User
11 years ago
I don't have stats but if they did drop death penalty thecrime would rise.Muslim countries don't have high crime rates as the penalties are harsh.
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RHP User
11 years ago
Quoting 'Twisted_Mister' Exactly. Can't wait to hear the howls of outrage from some in this country when the next lot of prisoners in Indonesia (Portuguese, Dutch and Brazilian) are shot in late June. Apparently we're not such a global village after all. If you're not Australian, it doesn't matter - or so it would seem. - Posted from rhpmobile Forgive my cynicism, clearly not newsworthy and doesn't make $$$ for the 24/7 news reel. And I don't think anyone here that has debated against the death penalty shrugs indifferently at 'Non Australians' being shot on site for criminal activity. It's just unfortunate that it's not published on a daily basis by the media en mass.
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RHP User
11 years ago
Quoting 'chevtrek' I don't have stats but if they did drop death penalty thecrime would rise.Muslim countries don't have high crime rates as the penalties are harsh. I would classify corruption at the top levels of law enforcement a criminal activity, wouldn't you? LG
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RHP User
11 years ago
As one who has several times been in a situation where the sharks can frenzy, and through upbringing , or just sheer luck, has decided against the idiocy that at times can seem to make sense....I dip my hat at your statements Sir Stir. One can quite easily make a foolish error while under the influence of drugs. Whether it be to decide to drive home when clearly under the influence....or to decide to carry a few grams or few kg of a drug over a border...the awful reality is that one has to pay the price for their actions. Most of us get lucky in those situations and wake up in the morning and have dodged a bullet...however the unlucky few didn't and wake up behind bars. However harsh it may seem for those Australians being executed overseas, the fact is they are out swimming in deep water where sharks circle and people die from trafficking and addiction...and they are also playing a game where the stakes are big money...or your life. Whether or not they are hardened traffickers, benefiting from the huge number of lives lost or damaged in the process, or if they are just "innocent" travellers caught by the sharks circling...the truth is we are are all big kids and make our own decisions...some of them are bad and some of them are just in the wrong place and the wrong time. So be it.
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RHP User
11 years ago
Educate and equip your kids to make the right choices in life. No to drugs! Be it on the streets of Victoria, the beaches of Bali or growing fields of Columbia. Respect and obey the laws of the country you live in or place you visit.
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RHP User
11 years ago
Quoting 'chevtrek' I don't have stats but if they did drop death penalty thecrime would rise.Muslim countries don't have high crime rates as the penalties are harsh. Chev I posted a link above from the ABC that goes into the deterrent effect - there isn't one. Crime doesn't rise when the death penalty is abolished - here's another link for you to ignore- http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/deterrence-states-without-death-penalty-have-had-consistently-lower-murder-rates Again, good data from the US - where the murder rate is consistently lower in states that do not have the death penalty. I's pretty easy to look up the per capita murder rate for various countries, but I know you won't bother. Indonesia, Pakistan, Malaysia, Egypt and Iran all have much higher rates than Australia, and they are all Muslim countries with the death penalty. Saudi Arabia is similar to Australia. Which countries were you thinking of? You can have whatever opinion you like, but to call them facts you will need to at least try and back it up.
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Lovinit28andKC72
11 years ago
Scream at the top of my lungs is all this thread makes me want to do..... I have wanted to weigh in on this, share my story since this thread started, but every time I read a new narrow minded comment all I can manage is to shake my head in disgust and scream...... Oh it must be so fucking hard to be perfect and never fucked up in your life......So keep sitting in your glass houses, keep looking through your rose coloured glasses, keep walking that path of self righteous, keep thinking your children or yourself have never or will never make mistakes or poor choices, but may god help you, if one day for whatever reason you have to walk that very same path that some of people have had to walk....I could lead you my shoes, but you wouldn't really appreciate them the way they deserve.....😡
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RHP User
11 years ago
Quoting 'SimonDoes' You can have whatever opinion you like, but to call them facts you will need to at least try and back it up. "I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person"? It's apposite to this situation I think. Lovinit, I love you honey
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RHP User
11 years ago
But the sad part is kids try to be cool or fit into a crowdor convinced its all ok.If they pass that then its greed or to take the easy waythat tempt them.I still do clubs and pubs and get offered drugs and if you spendthe time to chat a good amount of them have been in prison.The revolving door policy don't work and there back out gettingother kids addicted.Quoting '1DarkBull' Educate and equip your kids to make the right choices in life. No to drugs! Be it on the streets of Victoria, the beaches of Bali or growing fields of Columbia. Respect and obey the laws of the country you live in or place you visit.
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